How to convert an Atheist....
As an atheist I thought it would be helpful to give believers a clear step by step method to convert an atheist to their religion.
Why? Is it because i want to be converted? Not necessarily. It is because i'm tired of hearing the traditional and ineffective arguments
and methods for "proving".
The first thing you have to keep in mind is that the whole faith thing is NOT going to work.
So, if you ask us to believe something blindly it ain't gonna happen.
Second, wild and unfounded assertions are things you cannot just throw around and expect us NOT to call you on it.
Stating your argument with a wild assertion as your premise is called "begging the question." and is not the right way to start.
For example, if you tell me that your guardian angel watches over you begs the question, "how do you even know you have a guardian angel." (among other questions.)
There are a few things your rational atheist friend will be looking for.
Step 1. Define "God"
The word 'god' is now so diluted and non specific that you are going to need to clarify that to us first.
Is it a personal being?
Or do you believe that it its the universe itself? If it is the universe, then i believe in it too.. I just call it "universe" not "god".
Step 2. Provide Evidence to Prove Existence.
There have been a few attempts at this thrown my way and all seem to fail. The one I hear most often is what i refer to as the "god of the Gaps" argument.
The theist will point to an area of study or piece of information and point out that we don't know everything about it. Then they insert god into the gap as the solution to the puzzle.
For example, I have been asked, "How did the universe begin its existence?" or "what caused the Big bang?"
When my answer is the honest "I dont know." I am ambushed with the most obnoxious "God did it.". Which is not really a solution, not only that but it again begs a thousand more questions.
Basically what they are saying is that because science does not explain everything perfectly then it must be god. That is a Bad Argument.
Also, it seems degrading to their deity.
Why does he only get sciences leftovers?
Most would say that an Omni-everything being out there who cares about me is an extraordinary claim. I would agree.
Not all claims are created equal. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I had a question posed to me the other week by my mom, "How do you know that china exists?"
First let me say that the only thing i know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY is that i exist. Exactly what I am does not matter. It could be that i am a computer program and my life so far is all an illusion.
But from day one i have lived in this particular reality (to the very best of my knowledge.) and it has remained consistent. I have always been subject to gravity. Always. That does not mean that I have ABSOLUTE certainty that it will apply tomorrow, but gravity has a pretty good track record. I can however be certain from a practical standpoint. Based on the past I feel comfortable believing that gravity will continue to work.
Now in answer to my moms question, I believe china exists because i can see photos, detailed records, folklore, language, history, satellite imagery, video, people from china, etc. These are all tangible and plentiful. If I want to be even more sure of it there is a very easy and practical method to finding out. A plane ticket.
She brought up the alternative as well, so let us consider it. All of the preponderance of evidence is forged and fabricated. Which I suppose could be possible, however, does that not sound absurd? Why, first of all would anyone want to invent a continent and let it play such a role in human history if it is not real? Who exactly is in on this practical joke/ cover up effort?
I find this hypothesis to not only lack evidence, but the evidence that china DOES exist is heavily supported.
I believe China exists.
Step 3. Now that you have proven God, Prove your flavor of religion.
Again, support any claims with adequate evidence.
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That is as far as I think I can go on this guide really.
I am 100% willing to have my mind changed.
Heck, I am even telling you how you can.
-Athens
Excellent post! I especially like this:
ReplyDelete"Also, it seems degrading to their deity.
Why does he only get sciences leftovers?"
Very very true!
Hello friend. I ran across your blog and the proposal you presented on what it would take to convert an atheist and I thought I would respond.
ReplyDeleteFirst I am a Christian. Second you need to understand that although I do care about you and your soul I don’t care to convince you of anything. You are, I presume, a smart, educated person but know this, no one finds God unless they are actually looking for him. I.e. you are already predisposed to not look. If you want to find him you will if you don’t want to find him you won’t. I can tell you this though there are smarter people than you or I, many of them former atheists, who have found and come to believe and worship the God of the Bible. That’s because they were actually looking for him.
Your first question and parameter is to define “God”. Easy, the God of the Bible is a personal, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, righteous, self-existent, sovereign and transcendent being. Next
Your second question is “Provide evidence to prove existence”. My answer to you is really another question? Why do you have eyes yet cannot see? You’re question is obvious to me as the evidence of God’s existence is all around, Let me ask you another question. Do you think life on our planet and the structure of the cosmos just happened? Do you think or believe there is a naturalistic explanation for all of those things, which include all life even us? I know you don’t know but Interestingly recent discoveries in cosmology and astronomy have yielded evidence and facts that the cosmos is pregnant with design characteristics that have no known naturalistic explanation. Naturalists are puzzled and are trying to model this out with little success. In addition evidence and facts have come to light that the parameters for intelligent life to be, to live and flourish on the Earth much less anywhere else in the universe are statistically so remote as to be all but impossible. We are talking about staggering probabilities in the area 1 X 10 to the 240th power. Evidence is taking them places they don’t like.
You next ask to “Prove your flavor of religion”. I understand where you are coming from here, but I don’t think you understand the question you are asking. Are all so called religions different flavors of the same thing. No they are not. Hat are they then? Most “religious books” are in reality philosophies and or political texts. Nothing wrong with that but they don’t fit the question. To further narrow it down the Bible is the only book that speaks of a transcendent creator, resurrection after death, sin, eternal life and the only book that is filled with prophecies about the future, hundreds of which have already come to pass. It’s mind blowing when you think about the implications of this.
The only thing I can add to this discussion is this, if you want to really understand and find God, and I’m assuming you do, is how would you go about it. I would suggest how I started; get a copy of “The Bible in 24 Hours” and listen to it with an open mind. It’s a CD produced by Chuck Missler. Chuck is a lay person with a math background. You can get a copy off his website. Google it. Other than this suggestion I don’t know what else to add here.
Dear Christian. I would love to find out for myself just which studies and evidence you mean. Please post some links to get me started. I'll post a little more later on your comment.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the feedbCk.
Athens,
ReplyDeleteAre you TRYING to provoke people?? Why are you SO focused on the differences and act as though you need to automatically put up your defenses like everybody is out to prove you wrong? You go around making posts that come across as though you're claiming you are right and everyone that believes is wrong. I admit, I have a belief, but I have no proof. I can not ever PROVE the existence of God. You have a belief, but you don't necessarily have any proof that no God exists either... We all have our beliefs and when it comes to whether or not there is a living God (or Gods), there is no way to prove that to the world. Why can't we all just focus on the human similarities. Who cares if there are differing beliefs. It's possible to agree to disagree.
Ok. C and A.
ReplyDeleteAre people who believe in Allah wrong? Are people who believe in Wotan wrong? Are people who believe in zues wrong? With all of these differing views it stands to reason that at least SOME of them ARE wrong. Would you agree?
You are an atheist when it comes to all of those other gods. I just take it one further.
And don't shift the burden of proof onto me. You are the one claiming that a god exists. I don't have to prove you wrong.
"I have a million dollars."
"No you don't. "
"Prove it!"
Thanks for the reply. I am not going to give you links but instead give you references to use. The crux of your evidentiary biscuit is in what is termed the Anthropic principle. This principle comes in several flavors. For sampling from two antagonists google (Anthropic principle dr hugh ross). Dr Ross is a front line cosmologist and astronomer; he is also a Christian and a minister. But fundamentally he is a scientist dedicated to science fact. On the opposite end is Richard Dawkins. I am sure you are familiar with Mr. Dawkins Google (Anthropic principle Richard dawkins) Enjoy. There are several flavors of this principle out there which include the weak, strong, participatory, modified and final. This is an interesting and surprisingly deep pool have fun.
ReplyDeleteCorrection: I'm not claiming to be right. I'm not claiming you are wrong.
ReplyDeleteCorrection: I am not claiming anyone who believes in a different God/Gods to be wrong, either.
Correction: I am not asking you for proof, nor am I trying to prove anything to you.
Yes, I have my own beliefs. MY OWN. I'm not trying to force them on anyone else, nor am I trying to tell others that believe in no God or different Gods than myself that they are wrong. Because they have just as much of a right to believe whatever they choose to believe. I believe, I don't know. Some of my greatest friends are those with very differing beliefs. We agree to disagree, and that's all I'm suggesting. Why can't we agree to disagree that you are an athiest and I am a theist? That seems like the more mature thing to do... I'm not claiming or trying to state that you're wrong. I'm simply saying I believe something different. Which is okay.
Athens, I shared with you the only path that God has made available for you to know for yourself that he is and that Jesus is the Christ. Arguing with others is only going to feed the fire of deception and pain. Peace and knowledge of truth only comes in and through exercise of faith and obedience to the laws and ordinances of God and confirmed by the Holy Ghost. Mans intellect is limited and your quest for any other form of proof is going to gain you nothing. God does not fight with you, nor will he give in to your methods. His path is straight and narrow. He laid the plan for your growth, you just have to follow it if you want to ever succeed in really knowing. I encourage you to stop offending yourself by offending others. They love you and are on a path of learning just as you are. Be kind hearted and have some charity. Dad
ReplyDeleteby the way, I posted anonymous because I don't know how else to post on this blog, not because I fear other knowing who I am. J. Riley Huff Jr.
ReplyDeleteGod is to be loved and respected. You are his son. He loves you. He sent his son Jesus Christ so that you could follow the path he set to return to live with him.
ReplyDeleteWe all have the choice to follow him or reject him.
We might have the great opportunity to receive a visitation of an angel, a tangible resurrected being, would not leave the impression and would not convince us of anything because they fade with time.
The Holy Ghost speaks spirit to spirit and he testifies of the truth. That is his calling, duty, responsiblity, etc. When we receive a manifestation of the Holy Ghost we well feel it in our hearts. No it isn't some crazy unexplainable feeling but it does occur.
The Holy Ghost will visit anyone searching for the truth. There has to be a want and desire to know the truth. We also have to be humble and repent of our sins. If someone says there is no such things as sins that is a lie.
You have the gift of the Holy Ghost and if you live worthy of it, he will let you know the answers to your questions.
When you don't do the things God asks and reject what you once believed to be true, you are open to the influence of satan. He will cloud your mind, your heart will become harder, it is really hard to find peace with yourself, etc. These feelings are not of God but of Satan who is real as well.
ReplyDeleteGod has set up the order in which he communicates with his children. He set up the way, no man however smart, powerful, righteous, etc can tell him what he can or can't do.
We are all son's and daughter's of God he wants the best for us. He just like earthly parents do their best to raise you, help you, and teach you the things which you need to do to be successful in this life.
God will not focus anything on anyone no matter how important it is.
The ideas of man have always tried to explain things that happen. Some of the questions of man will be answered after we die. They are not that important to us. We can still follow the commandments of God, be good people, and wonderful followers of God and not have every single answer. Christ himself learned bits at a time, he didn't have everything all at once.
We must choose to point ourselves toward God and away from Satan. We are all in this together, Just like your father said.
Pride, anger, sins, disobedience, vanity are all things of a man of the world not a man of God. Life is not easy. Ask anyone.
We have faith and hope in things because it gives us encouragement to continue on in well doing, because it gives us hope of better things to come.
Man's Ideas seem very gloomy, pointed down, self important, make it seem like no one is more important than ones own selves. Man's Ideas say you can do whatever you want because everyone is free. That is true but you don't choose the consequences of choices either. Knowledge, and wisdom is two different things. Some of Man's Ideas are foolish because they lack the eternal persepective. We as mortals look at the now, and not the future because we can't. But God can.
I know there is a God and Jesus Christ and a Holy Ghost. They are there to help us along the way. If we are too stubborn to ignore and reject what they say and think we can do it on our own. We are wrong and need to learn and understand more.
I hope you pause and think what you are doing not just, to yourself, but to your family, friends, associates etc. Your actions don't just affect your life but everyone's that is connected to you. Your a very smart man from the looks of it. Don't let your ego and knowledge and pride get in the way of you doing what you know to be right.
We may feel that it is important to know all the mysteries of God but really we need to follow the things God has given us through prophets and scripture.
ReplyDeleteThere are times when we as mortals look up at God and ask "Why did this happen to me? or Why did you command someone to do this or that." We think we are the most important being in the universe and that our needs and wants are the most important. Yes we are important to God but he also has sent us here to learn and grow. He will not make everything easy for us because it was never ment to be.
You know actually how to find the answers you are looking for. You have been taught since you were young from parents that love and care for you the way of God.
I invite you to repent, change, pray, improve and understand that you are important to God and if you don't change you may learn some hard lessons in life.
No man can serve two masters.
Your salvation is at stake. You may think that what gives me the right to speak to you this way. I have the right because you are my brother a fellow son of God. I don't want to see you suffer more than you have to but if you remain foolish and say there is no God, etc. God will still bless you, but will also be reminded who he is as well.
Jesus Christ paid for your sins and mine. Everyone who has and ever will live. He has invited you to follow him and become like him. His yoke is easy and light.
All of these above post are by me